tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4476417299747774792.post2827087606718898518..comments2010-05-03T17:58:21.012-07:00Comments on Italian Film: Renegotiating Betrayal and Trust in Le Fate IgnorantiEMPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07909577715589827049noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4476417299747774792.post-76146969071931186682007-12-03T13:29:00.000-08:002007-12-03T13:29:00.000-08:00We all seem to wish Ozpetek had worked harder to c...We all seem to wish Ozpetek had worked harder to create depth with the character of the maid. We also wish the majority of the queer representations were a little less stereotyped. However for the most part we all seem to like the film. Eric's comment on the establishment of characters as a paradigm to work within was an interesting take on one of the reasons why the characters seem so flat. I also think Piero's comment on the presentation of gay characters in Italian film is an important note to highlight. By creating these characters even if they are limited then we can at least learn from and shape new characters to more accurately capture representative portrayls.H Jenningshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07809033262712280536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4476417299747774792.post-56664653967045029692007-10-11T10:32:00.000-07:002007-10-11T10:32:00.000-07:00While I agree that the way in which Antonia and Ma...While I agree that the way in which Antonia and Massimo's maid, Nora, was portrayed was quite frustrating in its representation of classism and racism, her "over the top" emotional reactions interested me. Not only are we as viewers unable to get a strong sense of Nora's relationship with Antonia, but also we are left wondering about the relationship she had with Massimo. I don't know if I am inferring way too much here, however I think she may have been closer to Massimo then just your average a live-in housekeeper (whatever that may be). Perhaps she had a clue about Massimo's secret life, and therefore shared a closeness with him that Antonia could not understand, but is expressed in the way she mourns his death. I wish we could have had more of Nora's character than a cardboard cutout, to find out if my theory is true.CDAbramshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00519032946747886509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4476417299747774792.post-79990651943049447402007-10-09T18:30:00.000-07:002007-10-09T18:30:00.000-07:00The comment H made in her post about colour being ...The comment H made in her post about colour being a driving force in this film, representing the characters and their many emotional states, defintely resounded with me. I especially enjoyed the reference: "As the film opens we see Antonia in her world of muted colors and neutrals, Michele on the other hand has a Crayola box of colors in his reach." Well put.<BR/><BR/>As far as stereotyping goes, I won't disagree that perhaps Ozpetek intentionally populated his film with many stereotypes to force the very irrationality of their existence. As far as Antonia's situation with Michele, as David points out it was necessary to wrench her from her comfortable and contented world and surround her with characters- or caricatures- that force her to rethink her perceptions of herself, her past, and her future. <BR/><BR/>That being said, I too was rather irritated, as others have mentioned, by the maid character. Whilst the stereotype issue is a central point to this film, I felt her character was a bit overwrought for my tastes.<BR/><BR/>Overall, however, I did enjoy this film very much.JeSuisBlondehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01572708430704219669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4476417299747774792.post-23174254778003032802007-10-09T10:20:00.000-07:002007-10-09T10:20:00.000-07:00It seems as if the biggest point of discussion is ...It seems as if the biggest point of discussion is on the topic of stereotypes. In my opinion, they are mainly used as a background for the story. It is similar to any story in which a character has to venture into unfamiliar and uncomfortable territories. I think Ozpetek wanted to create a world as unfamiliar as possible for Antonia. When someone is an uncomfortable place, they have to find ways to make it comfortable, and I think Antonia does the best she can at becoming comfortable with her new surroundings.DMeadorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06731808266062898689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4476417299747774792.post-83339626346450858582007-10-08T10:20:00.000-07:002007-10-08T10:20:00.000-07:00I agree with the disparities people are expressing...I agree with the disparities people are expressing regarding stereotypes are ever present in this film. However, wasn’t that the point? The overemphasis of the presence of the gay community as well as their behaviors is show in this film to a society in Italy that still today pretends they do not exist. Almost as if the director was saying here we are! Recognize us! Sure it was a bit melodramatic and unrealistic, but in my mind, that’s what makes it a film and not reality. Wouldn’t it be rather monotonous to go and view our everyday lives point-for-point on the big screen?<BR/><BR/>For me, I enjoyed the symbolism and hidden implications throughout the film. For example, the explanation of the breaking glass to signify someone you love has left your life. I loved how it only took a second for the viewer to understand Antonia was not gone for good by a simple glass not breaking instead of a long epilogue. <BR/><BR/>It was funny how at one point, despite the fact that the relationship between Michele and Antonia was quite bizarre and unrealistic the, I was actually rooting for them to make it! But I was quickly snapped back to reality with the thought of how strange that situation might be. (Dead husband’s lover?) <BR/><BR/>All in all, however, a fascinating, entertaining and informative piece.sficanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14645195161389700657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4476417299747774792.post-83865531500840963372007-10-07T07:19:00.000-07:002007-10-07T07:19:00.000-07:00Yes, I suppose, you're right that Ozpetek uses a l...Yes, I suppose, you're right that Ozpetek uses a lot of stereotypes. But we can also see, that he is really radical and absolutely not one-sided on the other side: he is not only de-constructing the bourgeois myth of a heterosexual couple's happiness but showing also the problems of the gay community - might that be prejudices they have to face (as in the scene in the rain, where Antonia and Michele are having a fight) or might that be the feeling of missing something (as Michele expresses, saying that sometimes he wishes he had a home as Massimo and Antonia were having).<BR/>So what I found, apart from so many other things I liked about the film, really great is that he dismantles and takes apart everything, and also shows what problems you have to deal with if you decide (by will or because you are compelled to) to live a life off the mainstream-heterosexual-couple-life.judithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403908334349005291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4476417299747774792.post-75196223015820953752007-10-05T09:23:00.000-07:002007-10-05T09:23:00.000-07:00Although I have some problems with this movie, I c...Although I have some problems with this movie, I can say that I like it. It is true that there are several stereotypes (and I can add to your list the Neapolitan girl who sings…), but the importance of this stereotypical approach, I think, has to be weighted with the role that we want this movie to have. To be more explicit, if we consider that this movie has to be an investigation of the social issues the gay community has to face in Italy, or of the attitude of Italians against gay and lesbian people, or, to paraphrase Prof. Corvino’s conference title, of gay life’s morality, then, this movie is a failure because is superficial and lacks courage, since the social issues are only hinted by Antonia’s misbelieve of M. standing for Michele and her not revealing to her mother than the late husband had another man and not another woman. On the other hand, if one considers this movie to be a declaration of presence of a social group, then, Le fate ignoranti, even with its stereotypes and its sweetening representation of gay life, can be considered an important movie. I am among the latter, especially thinking that since the 1977 movie “Una giornata particolare”, this is the first successful movie to show gay people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4476417299747774792.post-30247208685172796992007-10-05T09:21:00.000-07:002007-10-05T09:21:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4476417299747774792.post-87516281901037832482007-10-04T10:02:00.000-07:002007-10-04T10:02:00.000-07:00I agree completely with the issue of stereotypes. ...I agree completely with the issue of stereotypes. At first I thought it was a bit silly as well, but maybe Ozpetek was trying to prove a point about not only stereotypes involving gay people but with racial issues as well. The gay characters at first seem stereotypical but the director wants us to get to know them as human beings with real problems and issues, and I think he was effective in doing so and also in merging the Antonia's world with the lives of these new people she meets.<BR/><BR/>Also, it was great to see Erika Blanc in this movie. I remember her from old '70s exploitation flicks, most particularly the 1971 Italian-French-Belgian production of "La plus longue nuit du diable" or "The Devil's Nightmare" - great flick for those who like Italian horror!Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16651222743208892678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4476417299747774792.post-35027479575594416102007-10-04T08:33:00.000-07:002007-10-04T08:33:00.000-07:00Yes, the portrayal of Antonia's maid is irritating...Yes, the portrayal of Antonia's maid is irritating. It makes Rosario from <I>Will & Grace</I> actually look like a step forward.<BR/><BR/>Something which American network TV shows and mainstream American films have failed to do in regards to the portrayal of the queer community is to move beyond “the solitary and the couple” to a full-fledged “lesbian ecology,” (Wolfe & Roripaugh, 2006) much less an "ecology" which fully justifies the use of the "LGBT" acronym. In <I>Le Fate Ignoranti</I>, Massimo's "secret world" includes at least one of each from the acronym: the Turkish lady is a lesbian, Michele appears to be completely gay apart from his kissing Antonia, Massimo is bisexual, and Mara is transgendered.<BR/><BR/>The translator deserves some credit (or criticism?) for exercising subtlety in the subtitles: for example, the Turkish lady refers to herself as "lesbica" but this is ignored in the English subtitles. Contrast this to Stewie's song in the <I>Family Guy</I> episode "The Thin White Line," for which English-speaking viewers correctly deduct the subtext of Stewie's song, but the Spanish dubber "apparently felt that the subtext needed to be turned into an explicit statement" with the use of the word "homosexual." (Delarte, 2005)<BR/><BR/>Delarte, Alonso. "'Family Guy' musicals lost in translation" <I>The Daily Vidette Online</I> by wire from <I>The South End</I>. January 19, 2005. http://media.www.dailyvidette.com/media/storage/paper420/news/2005/01/19/Features/family.Guy.Musicals.Lost.In.Translation-835009.shtml Accessed October 3, 2007<BR/><BR/>Wolfe, Susan J., and Lee Ann Roripaugh. "The (in)Visible Lesbian: Anxieties of Representation in the L Word." <I>Reading the L Word</I>. Eds. Kim Akass and Janet McCabe. London: I. B. Tauris, 2006. 43 - 54.AlonsoDelartehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18298438456350173382noreply@blogger.com